And Barnes makes a 200-grain TSX bullet designed for this cartridge that, when handloaded to 2850 f.p.s., allows the .350 Rem. I would hold out for the 30 M1 CB unless i was just buying the Winchester for hunting or collecting . For a while Savage chambered it in the Model 99, and I am still looking for one I can afford. When Winchester designed 350 Legend, we engineered all of the bullets from scratch to be optimized for the new cartridge. This stumpy little cartridge was introduced to the hunting public in 1908 and is the only surviving member of the early class of Remington rimless cartridges. Back in 1983 Winchester introduced the .356 Win. to achieve its potential. It should come as no small comfort for any patriotic American to know that the countrys firearm industry is vibrant and productive, still faithfully serving the needs of armed citizens, law-enforcement officers and military personneljust as it has for more than two centuries. However, Winchester experienced great difficulty in the development of their autoloading rifle and the unique calibers designed for it. With the best loads, my Remington Model 700 is one-hole accurate. The Big Game Hunting Blog is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com, Amazon.co.uk, Amazon.ca, Amazon.com.au, and other Amazon stores worldwide. ANTIQUE MADE IN 1891. As of this writing, five of Midways .350 Legend options are in stock while the company reports having zero .30-30 cartridges available. The 401 WSL would seem to have been a good choice for a large caliber AR 15, but they came out with the 450 Bushmaster instead. But do you know the real-world differences between a standard cartridge and a Weatherby Sign in to access your profile, save content and more. has been offered in just about every rifle action type ever conceived and a few handguns. and is probably a better deer and black bear cartridge at woods ranges than the more popular .30-30 Win. This gun is in excellent condition in its orignal hardcase with keys. Miner had a heavy octagon barrel model 94 with it's barrel shorten to carbine length. 1 - Existing barrel making equipment could be made use of. McPherson. Winchester still offers ammunition, but the guns are history. Show Only with Pictures You are being redirected - Shooters' Forum One can almost hear the echoes of Norma Mag. The ammunition hung on a while longer, but eventually Big Green abandoned her babies and stopped making both cartridges. 26" Barrel. To put this into perspective, a Boeing 737 commercial airliner travels at a cruising speed of 600 mph, or 880 fps. The M1 carbine was issued to infantry officers; machine gun, artillery and tank crews; paratroopers; and other line-of-communications personnel in lieu of the larger, heavier M1 Garand. (For context, Federals highest-BC 6.5 Creedmoor clocks in at .607.). . The US .30 cal M1 Carbine is one of the most important developments in the personal defense weapon story, being one of the very first* intermediate calibers to be adopted as standard issue by a nation, and arguablythe first purpose-designed PDW caliber in history. Seller: cma959. Winchester sold both soft point and FMJ ammunition for the .351 SL cartridge over the years. The 1907 is designed with a short barrel, and completely . Either cartridge would have had better knock down power than 30 Carbine. From my collection Winchester 1894. It arrived with three other cartridges designed to compete with Winchester's popular lever-action lineup. SMOOTH PATINA METAL WITH GOOD WOOD AND A NICE BORE. [6] (The .30 Carbine's relatively straight case and round nose bullet have misled some to believe it was designed for use in pistols.) The 357 Magnum fired a 158 gr SP at 1240 fps. You will never get the recoil spring back in it. As the winner of two out of three categories, the .30-30 Winchester deserves the overall nod. The velocity and energy figures in this table are taken from various sources including the Federal, Remington, Weatherby and Winchester ammunition guides and the 9th Edition of the book Cartridges of the World by Frank C. Barnes and edited by M.L. So a .30 M1 Carbine round exits the barrel with kinetic energy equal to the energy required for linear vertical displacement of 960 pounds through a one foot distance, while a .30-30 Winchester round exiting the barrel has energy equal to the amount required to displace 1890 pounds over the same one foot distance. A typical 35 Remington factory load (200gr bullet at 2,080fps) has about 5% more energy than a normal 30-30 factory load (170gr bullet at 2,200fps). in a rimmed cartridge that would work in a lever-action rifle. Federal does not market any of their .350 Legend options as elk cartridges. and the .32 Win. Jim in Idaho #7914589 07/19/13. Released in 2019, the Legend was designed for use in states that restrict deer hunters to straight-wall cartridges and was billed as the fastest such cartridge currently in production. 94 1946 excellent condition. Very well cared for rifle, there is a barely noticable very small chip in the stock .Click for more info. Considerations for Handloading World War II-Vintage Rifle Ammunition During that time, Winchester produced over 49,000 rifles, including over 8,000 produced during World War I and World War II. Midway USA, for example, which is among the best at keeping ammo in stock, reports 35 varieties of .30-30 while only 15 offerings of .350 Legend. "[8], U.S. Army specifications for the new cartridge mandated the caliber to be greater than .27, with an effective range of 300 yards or more, and a midrange trajectory ordinate of 18 inches (460mm) or less at 300 yards. One way to think about this is as such: a foot-pound is a unit of energy equal to the amount of energy required to raise a weight of one pound a distance of one foot. As a result, it has approximately 41% higher muzzle velocity with 27% more impact energy than the parent .32 WSL cartridge. The .351 Winchester Self-Loading (also called .351 SL or .351 WSL) is an American rifle cartridge designed in 1906. 80% BLUE, NICE BORE. I'd go with the carbine if you plan to shoot it much. What's Going On With .350 Legend? - The Truth About Guns revolvers, so why wouldnt a 35 WSL or 351 WSL not be good for hunting? Perhaps the most notablecharacteristic of the Model 1903 rifle and its later larger brothers was its blowback action. It went through 1,232 rounds without incident. For hunting, it is considered a small-to-medium-game cartridge. Please try a new zip code and search again. It arrived with three other cartridges designed to compete with Winchesters popular lever-action lineup. Does anyone know if any gunsmith ever converted a 30 Carbine to 32 WSL? Winchester 351 Self-Loading: Truly Amazing! - YouTube Mag., and I think thats the only current production rifle in that cartridge. Own and shoot both. And I thought .348 Win was tough to find. Rifle Carbines are available in 40 S&W, and some use it to hunt deer and wild hogs, but even the 32 WSL and 35 WSL beat it in ballistics. "[8] The evaluation also reported that "[c]ommanders noted that it took two to three engagements at least to settle their men to the automatic feature of the carbine so that they would not greatly waste ammunition under the first impulse of engagement. Try Buffalo arms in Idaho for brass and bullets for reloading. Fusion Ammo has a 200-grain with a muzzle velocity of 2800 f.p.s. The M1 Carbine is VERY reliable, sufficiently accurate for most urban needs, and is feather light. the Henry's seem to be very solid and the action is danged smooth. Townsend Whelen praised it as a "good cartridge for deer and similar game in close timber."[3]. The .30-30 Winchester and .35 Remington won't break any speed recordsthere's no doubt about that. Worked on one the other day for a young kid. . Duke's newest prize is a fine-condition Winchester Model 1907 .351 WSL. bumping this, I obtained a magazine for the first one shown up top - for a mere $64. Most ammunition makers have a 200-grain load, and Remington also has a 150-grain load with a muzzle velocity of 2300 f.p.s. Classic Police Self-Loaders: Model 8 Versus Model 1907 WINCHESTER 06 22 S,L,LR. Its overall length was 35.6 inches; it weighed 5.2 pounds, had a barrel length of 18 . A failed product is often said to be ahead of its time, which is usually just a polite way of saying nobody wanted to buy it. Therefore, the M1 carbine is significantly less powerful than the M1 Garand. while finding .30 carbine ammo can be a challenge at times, finding adequate quantities of .351 SL would seem an impossible task. crying, My kingdom for a rifle.. Just bought the 22 sl. The M1 Carbine is VERY reliable, sufficiently accurate for most urban needs, and is feather light. Even the military wouldnt use semi or full auto ( hand held) fearing soldiers would shoot too much ammo. With overall 50% blue mixing to dark brown patina. We don't use the same bullets for 30-30 Win and .308 Win and 7.62x39mm. This understandably led to mistakes and confusion among the buying public regarding the proper ammunition for the rifle and hampered sales of what should have been a very popular rifle. Particularly not with all of the various chamberings and uppers you can get on the AR platform these days. I have used this cartridge on moose with excellent results. But whats good for military purposes isnt always ideal for the deer blind. EARLY GUN SERIAL NUMBER 194. The leadership at Winchester realized that a large untapped market existed for the winner of the autoloader race, so they were determined to beat Remington to the punch and release their self-loading rifle first. You might already know this. Sellier & Bellot: 1947 fps. The 10mm Auto semi auto pistols is being used to hunt deer and wild hogs, and it equals the 35 WSL ballistics. In 1968 the 600 Magnum was replaced by the Model 660 Magnum, which featured a 20-inch barrel, but it was never a big seller, and Remington dropped the rifles. They shot lever actions and bolt actions, and probably didnt understand semi auto rifles. 80% BLUE. There have been many others, such as the .35-30 Maynard (both in the 1865 and the 1882 versions) and .35-40 Maynard. Still, I hope its clear how closely these cartridges stack up. Mossberg .22 LR models 340 340A 340B 340M 342 342K 344 344K 346K 346B 350 350K 351 352 352K 353 Rifl Winchester mod. Show Only Guns The record contains a few examples of carbine-aimed fire felling an enemy soldier at this distance or perhaps a little more. Comments have to be approved before showing up, 2023 Foundry Outdoors - All Rights Reserved, Product successfully added to your Shopping Cart, 223 WSSM Winchester Super Short Magnum Ammo, 243 WSSM Winchester Super Short Magnum Ammo, 25 WSSM Winchester Super Short Magnum Ammo, 300 RSAUM Remington Short Action Ultra Magnum Ammo, 7mm RSAUM Remington Short Action Ultra Magnum Ammo, .30 M1 Carbine vs .30-30 Winchester Ammo Comparison - Ballistics Info & Chart. I think that the semi auto rifles were ahead of their time Been looking for a deal on a nice M1 Carbine these last few months in preparing for the eventual Zombie apocalypse. 95% BARRELS, 85% RECEIVER AND N WINCHESTER 1400 20GA 28 MOD. The .30 Carbine cartridge was developed by Winchester and is basically a rimless .30 caliber (7.62mm) version of the much older .32 Winchester Self-Loading cartridge of 1906 introduced for the Winchester Model 1905 rifle. The weapon was originally issued with a 15-round detachable magazine. Mag. from my E.R. Hornadys LEVERevolution pushes the performance up a notch with a 200-grain pointed bullet at 2225 f.p.s. Ruger's fine New Model Blackhawk extends the .30 Carbine cartridge's versatility. In 1958, the short-lived J. Kimball Arms Co. produced a .30 Carbine caliber pistol that closely resembled a slightly scaled-up High Standard Field King .22 target pistol. I have used the .35 Whelen on critters from bobcats to moose. Cumpston, Mike, "The .30 Carbine Blackhawk: Ruger's Enduring Dark Horse", "CARTRIDGE AND CHAMBER DRAWINGS CENTERFIRE RIFLE", "Rimless cartridges, Calibres of rifled long centre fire weapons for rimless cartridges", "BBTI - Ballistics by the Inch:: .357 Mag Results", "Liberator's Truimphal March Through An Ecstatic Island", "The .30 Carbine Blackhawk: Ruger's Enduring Dark Horse", https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=.30_Carbine&oldid=1152171899, Winchester Repeating Arms Company cartridges, Articles with failed verification from July 2020, Pages using infobox firearm cartridge with unknown parameters, Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License 3.0, This page was last edited on 28 April 2023, at 17:05. in the Big Bore Model 94. 98% OVERALL. Copyright 2023 Big Game Hunting Adventures LLC | All Rights Reserved, 25-06 vs 6.5 Creedmoor vs 270: The Results Might Surprise You, 6.5 Creedmoor vs 308 Winchester Debate Settled. The M1 and M2 carbines continued in service during the Korean War. USOG 60.7K subscribers Subscribe 40K views 4 years ago Join me for a look at another great investment rifle. is on the threatened list, this one is on a path to extinction. Nathaniel is a history enthusiast and firearms hobbyist whose primary interest lies in military small arms technological developments beginning with the smokeless powder era. The .350 Legend is popular enough to justify continued production but not popular enough that the shelves are bare. 357 Magnum vs 30 Carbine: Which is Better in a Handgun? The .358 Win. . can drive the same weight bullet a bit faster. The .30-30 in this example is traveling about 5% faster at the muzzle, but it drops about 20% less than the .350. One of the oldest and most popular cartridges of all time, the .30-30 Winchester, was released in 1895 and has been bringing down all manner of game ever since. Though Winchester Self-Loading Rifles in .351 WSL and .401SL are not in the same league as bolt action rifles chambered in .308 Win or .30-06 Springfield, thats not really a fair comparison. I have quite a bit of money into these guns now but I have one of each. That load actually produced 2825 f.p.s. The first trigger housing used with an M1 Carbine was a modified Winchester M1907 trigger housing used in Winchester's first prototype submission to the Ordnance "light rifle" trials in August 1941. Perhaps Military Rifle would have been a better term. 24 inch barrel. I would like some information if possible on approximate value if in good usable condition. If you had to pick the sexiest cartridges of the last decade, youd run through quite a few before you hit the .270 Winchester or .243 Winchester. In 1987 Remington made an honest cartridge out of the .35 Whelen. The 600 Magnum suffered from a barrel that was too short at 18 inches. Modern Historical Personal Defense Weapon Calibers 006: The .30 M1 Carbine What is the going price of an original box of 351 ammo. If we compare the .300 Win. Antique (Pre-1899) Rifles - Flintlock Misc, Antique (Pre-1899) Rifles - Matchlock/Wheellock Misc, Century Arms International (CAI) - Rifles, Muzzleloading Modern & Replica Rifles (perc), Winchester Rifles - Modern Bolt/Auto/Single, Winchester Rifles - Pre-1899 Bolt/Single Shot, Century Arms International (CAI) - Pistols, Colt Automatic Pistols (.25, .32, & .380 cal), Colt Single Action Revolvers - Modern (22 Cal. . As illustrated in the chart, .30 M1 Carbine rounds - on average - achieve a velocity of about 1990 feet per second (fps) while .30-30 Winchester rounds travel at a velocity of 2370 fps. OVERALL LENGTH 38? The .351 Winchester fired the same 180 grain bullet as the .35 SL, but at a considerably higher velocity of 1,850 feet per second (1,368 ft-lbs of muzzle energy). This new model featured two new cartridges, the .350 Rem. Two absolutely worthless cartridges, 30 cal M-1 carbine and the .351 have provided the insightful highway for some decent rounds. The US .30 cal M1 Carbine is one of the most important developments in the personal defense weapon story, being one of the very first* intermediate calibers to be adopted as standard issue by a nation, and arguably the first purpose-designed PDW caliber in history. Mag. They cant ride the love-it-or-hate-it controversy of the 6.5mm calibers. Good article on the forgotten Winchesters. 300 blackout. If that's what floats your boat. This helps support the blog and allows me to continue to create free content thats useful to hunters like yourself. The Winchester 351 self-loading rifle is. Most used hard and put away wet. Save your pennies and hold out for the M1 Carbine then save your pennies and start stocking away ammo and magazines. The two really dont compare. They have almost all abandoned the cartridge. Unfortunately for Winchester, the Model 10 was not a good seller and the company only produced about 20,000 produced before dropping it from production in 1936. winchester 94 carbine vs. 94 rifle | Graybeard Outdoors Having owned several different rifles chambered in .351 WSL and .401 WSL over the years, I can attest to the fact that they are quite good at what they were designed to do: cleanly take North American deer and black bear size game when hunting in close cover where quick shots might be called for. Make sure you subscribe toThe Big Game Hunting Podcastand follow The Big Game Hunting Blog onFacebook,Instagram,Twitter, andYouTube. However, the .401 Winchester Self-Loading, which was itself proceeded by the .351 Winchester Self-Loading, and the Winchester Model 1907 and 1910 rifles that fired those cartridges, all filled those roles many decades before anyone ever heard of the 10mm Auto,the AR-15, or the Ruger Mini-14. The .351 WSL did grab a bit of fame, first as a popular rifle for prison guards and then as one of the rifles used to punch a lot of holes in Bonnie and Clydes automobile (although that accolade is in question). Remington currently lists a Model 7 rifle with a 20-inch barrel; todays version of the 600 in .350 Rem. Gun #: 943226118 . from a 20" barrel. But unfortunately, only rifles made for these cartridges was Winchester, no one else chambered them, how come? The long accepted story was that James V. Howe developed the cartridge in 1922 and named it in honor of his friend, gunwriter Col. Townsend Whelen. Moderate, safe, bland and predictable. The only energy foot/pounds that were calculated were for the Hornady Custom, which had the highest mean velocity. 351 winchester for sale and auction. Remington continues to offer factory ammo, and its 200-grain factory load has a muzzle velocity of 2675 f.p.s., while the 250-grain loads muzzle velocity is 2400 f.p.s. 26" Barrel. With a 200-grain bullet at 2460 f.p.s., it is a heavy-hitter on whitetails. The .30 Carbine, for all practical purposes, is a scaled-down Winchester .351 SL. Its safe to say that your local sporting goods store is more likely to stock the .30-30 Winchester than the .350 Legend. Shaw rifles 24-inch barrel. The Remington Model 600 Magnum rifle, along with the cartridge it birthed, was just such a product. That being said,some good did come out of the money and time spent on the development of the Model 1905 and the accompanying cartridges that would help the company in the future. They are still around, although finding a pristine example will be tough. [2], While a few gun writers in the 1960s criticized the .351 SL for being inadequate as a deer hunting round, and the round's power has sometimes been compared to a .357 Magnum carbine load, the .351 SL's killing power falls somewhere between the .30-30 Winchester and the .35 Remington. That suggests the difference, at least in part, is due to the bullet. A blowback action in the most basic autoloading action. round barrel worn finish and cracked butt plate please view pictures for condition. In todays post, my dad will go over the history of the .401 and .351 Winchester Self-Loading cartridges in detail and cover why they were initially developed and why they eventually fell by the wayside. It seems to me that this would be a good time to bring back these cartridges in a modern semi auto or compact bolt action rifle. Show Only Non-Guns. The .356 Win. Made from premium-grade, vegetable-tanned leather, the Burdette Custom Holsters Detective SA-35 holster is a custom outside-the-waistband (OWB) model for the Springfield Armory SA-35 semi-automatic pistol. Dear Socialists: I have no money for you. Federal loads the 225-grain Trophy Bonded Bear Claw bullet with a muzzle velocity of 2600 f.p.s. The .35 Rem. By experience, they would come to handle it semiautomatically, but it took prolonged battle hardening to bring about this adjustment in the human equation. Military snipers wont be adopting either cartridge any time soon, but both enjoy a dedicated following of hunters who appreciate a medium-power option that can get the job done out to 250 yards. The Legend could certainly bring down an elk, but possible is not the same as ideal. If youre looking for a do-it-all cartridge, the .30-30 will likely serve you better. NICE BORE. Know those parts well. It was a 94 takedown that was returned to Winchester (per the family to be re-barreled) it was barreled with the front end of a Winchester takedown 55, comple 7677 Winchester Model 94AE, 30-30, NRA limited to 500, engraved Deer on receiver Adjustable rear sight, Winchester butt plate. Sure, we experiment a bit with other bore sizes, but in the end it always comes back to the .30 caliber. Every competition has a winner, but the truth is, youre unlikely to notice much difference from the whitetail stand. ), Muzzleloading Modern & Replica Pistols (flint), Muzzleloading Modern & Replica Pistols (perc), United States Patent Firearms Revolvers/Pistols, Century Arms International (CAI) - Shotguns, Henry Orginal Silver Deluxe Engraved .44-40 H011SD 24.5" EZ PAY $351, Smith & Wesson Model 351 PD .22 Magnum 1.875" 7 Rds Black 160228, Smith & Wesson 103351 Model 351 Classic 22 **10 MONTH FREE LAYAWAY**, Smith & Wesson Model 351 Classic AirLite 22 WMR 1.88" W 7 Rnd Capacity New (103351). .243 Winchester vs .30 M1 Carbine Ammo Comparison - Ballistics Info These cartridges stack up so closely from a ballistics standpoint that neither can claim to hit harder than the other. It was designed to improve the range and stopping power of the M1 carbine. Please note, the following information reflects the estimated average ballistics for each caliber and does not pertain to a particular manufacturer, bullet weight, or jacketing type. "the designer of the .270 Ingwe cartridge!". The Ruger Blackhawk revolver chambered for the .30 Carbine round has been in the catalogs since the late 1960s. Its too bad that no other companies picked up the 32 WSL, 35 WSL, 351WSL and 401 WSL . In most Caliber Battles, one cartridge clearly offers more power and velocity across a range of loads and bullet weights. Mag. I believe it never will. lbs., which is lower than normal .223 hunting and varmint loads. Any series covering this topic would be incomplete without a look at the round, however! The .30 Carbine (7.6233mm) is a rimless carbine/rifle cartridge used in the M1 carbine introduced in the 1940s. Ballistics and .32 Rem. From a four-inch (102mm) barrel, it launched the standard GI ball projectile at 1,277ft/s (389m/s), producing an average group of 4.18 inches (106mm) at 25 yards (23m); the military decided not to adopt the revolver. M44/Carbine; Mini-14 Type; Model 77; RWS Rifles; S Misc Rifles; Saiga Rifles. 351 winchester vs 35 remingtonchannel 13 weather girl pregnant; 351 winchester vs 35 remingtonphiladelphia inmate mugshots; 351 winchester vs 35 remingtonhanalei hat company; 351 winchester vs 35 remingtonpan peninsula canary wharf service charge 351 winchester vs 35 remington. the 32 was the hardest one to come up with, There are a lot of 351 out there and some very nice ones, Thanks for this article and the information in it. Included in that have been a whole bunch of deer, hogs and a bear or two. Winchester .350 Legend - CHUCKHAWKS.COM Manufacturer Smith & WessonbrbrModel Model 351 PDbrbrSKU 106228brbrCaliber .22 MagnumbrbrBarrel 1.875 Stainless SteelbrbrCylinder Aluminum AlloybrbrOverall L Smith & Wesson 103351 Model 351 Classic 22 Mag 7rd 1.88" Black Stainless Steel Barrel Matte Black Aluminum Cylinder & Frame with Black Polymer Grip & No Internal Lock MFR # 103351 (103351) New Smith & Wesson Model 351 Classic chambered in 22 Mag. Nosler has three loads in its Custom line. The 351 WSL fired a 180 gr SP at 1850 fps, this is much higher than the 357 Magnum fired out of a lever action rifle, a 180 gr SP at 1500 fps. I have shot a few critters, including a tough South Texas Nilgai, and have been happy with the performance. Upon its release, the Legend was marketed as a light-recoiling cartridge, and the .30-30 is also well-known as a good option for the recoil-sensitive. 2 - The lighter bullet of the .30 Carbine made for much lighter ammunition. Copyright 2000-2023 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved. Area Code: 715. Copyright 2000-2023 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved. This gun has a story. Reply. Mag. I have a .356 Win. [6] (. Check out GunBroker. 351 Winchester Self/ Loading 12 HRN390552 19 LEE90004 15 LY7738055 19 RCBS09219 5 RED11005 We are also beginning to deliver those bullets as components. with a similar 180-grain bullet. The .223's 200 yard energy is given as 603 ft. 30 Carbine vs 5.56: Beloved Military Rounds | The Daily Bell Joined: Dec 2008. All that being said, if one were interested in hunting with a very unique rifle that you would be very unlikely to encounter in the woods in the hands of another hunter, the Winchester Model 1907 and Model 1910 autoloaders in .351 Winchester or .401 Winchester would be a great choice. from a 20 inch rifle barrel, which is lower than any .30-30 load published in the Winchester ammo catalog. 351 winchester vs 35 remington - behaviourbrasil.com.br The elder statesman of the deer woods, the .30-30 Win. All of this might sound like splitting hairs, and it is. Winchester and Hornady both offer 200-grain loads at 2475 f.p.s. This makes sense: the Legend was developed specifically for use in Midwestern whitetail states that require straight-wall cases. was simply a .308 Win. But the military has hundreds of millions of 30-06 ammo from WW1, and didnt want a new caliber. Common types used by the military with the carbine include: The .30 Carbine was the basis for Melvin M. Johnson's .22 Spitfire (5.7x33mm), necking the .30 Carbine's case down to a .22 caliber bullet. The 35 WSL fired a 180 gr SP at 1390 fps, this duplicated the 38-40 ballistics. The .350 Legend goes for $1.15 to $2.30/round and the .30-30 Winchester anywhere from $1.15 to $4.70/round. I read back in the 1980s a couple of gunsmith were doing conversation of 30 Carbine rifles to 45 Win. The work must have been done in the tool shed, but the rifle was a shooter.